Jack Kuveke (00:00:00):
It's just every billionaire now that runs a big tech company is just Lex Luthor. They're going to space. They're building, like, crazy devices that are probably going to destroy humanity. They're like best friends with the president of the United States.

Pablo Strugo (00:00:15):
They were confined to their industries, you know what I'm saying? Like Rockefeller did oil, that was what he did. You know, Cargill did steel, J.P. Morgan's finance, whatever. Vanderbilt was rails. Now, it's just like there's just so much power. So much fluidity to go across. It's like, you know, Zuck does whatever he wants and basically does whatever they want. They're not confined to anything. What do you use Grammarly for these days with all the AI that's available?

Jack Kuveke (00:00:37):
I didn't realize anyone was still writing anything. I haven't written anything in months. I don't plan on it. I'm hoping that if all goes well, within three years. I forget how to read.

Previous Guests (00:00:49):
That's product market fit. Product market fit. Product market fit. I called it the product market fit question. Product market fit. Product market fit. Product market fit. Product market fit. I mean, the name of the show is Product market fit. 

Pablo Strugo (00:01:01):
Do you think the product market fit show has product market fit? Because if you do, then there's something you just have to do. You have to take out your phone. You have to leave the show five stars. It lets us reach more founders, and it lets us get better guests. Thank you. Jack, welcome back to the show, dude.

Jack Kuveke (00:01:16):
Thanks for having me. Again, once more, three times a charm. I think by the fourth or fifth one, I'll be canceled, but.

Pablo Strugo (00:01:22):
Well, you know, this is. It reminds me of the other day. We were looking at some startup that has their own cameras and parking tickets and stuff. And somebody was like, you know, I don't really get how people get caught by the same speeding camera over and over. Like, you'd think you'd learn where they are, and then you'd slow down before you get them. And I'm like, dude, you're looking at the guy right here. Like, I just go fast every time. And I just make the same mistake over and over. And so here you are. Back on the show.

Jack Kuveke (00:01:50):
I was just in Italy this past week, and the person I was staying with told me. They were like, Hey, watch out. There's a lot of speeding cameras. And I was like, I'll be responsible. And then, of course, I just was, like, halfway through this three and a half, four-hour drive. I was just flying. And I was like, I'm going to pay $800 worth of fines in Italy. And I don't even care.

Pablo Strugo (00:02:12):
So we're the kind of people. We don't learn from our mistakes. We just do it over and over and hope that things change. Isn't that? That's a great way to be. So, dude, last time we did the news episode, we started with your kind of favorite male superhero founder, who's Adam Neumann, obviously. Now we're going to start with the female version. The female superwoman, superhero, or whatever we want to talk about. Let me put it this way. Let's say you were today starting a company that was going to do blood testing, you know what I mean? Something around that. Who would be your favorite advisor? The number one pick.

Jack Kuveke (00:02:44):
I mean, other than Henry Kissinger, that's number one. Number two in close contention has to be old Elizabeth Holmes. Who, by the way, you know. We give, we've obviously given Adam Newman a lot of credit on this show together because he made out like a bandit despite defrauding just an inordinate amount of people. However, Elizabeth Holmes may be the greatest to ever do it. She's, it's a close first and second. Again, depending on the week, I go back. Once she started, marry. She married this other rich guy. Like, was it like the, it's not the Hilton hotels? It's like the other big. 

Pablo Strugo (00:03:26):
It's Billy Evans, right? You're talking about Billy Evans. The guy whose hotel it is.  

Jack Kuveke (00:03:28):
Yeah, like the Hyatt. Is he the Hyatt hotel heir?

Pablo Strugo (00:03:31):
I don't even. I don't know who he is. All I can tell you. He's the guy that's starting this startup. So I didn't even really. When I read this article, I was like her partner. I thought I felt like I was like, oh, it's somebody that worked at Theranos. No, it's like her life partner. They're not married. They have kids together.

Jack Kuveke (00:03:44):
I mean, she's in jail. I swear this is the guy that she's married to, like this guy that she's married to. This guy is like the heir of a hotel fortune. That's how he made his money, which, by the way, is really, really funny for her to be like, you know what? I can't make money anymore. I've defrauded. So I have to go back to the only option left in the book, which is to marry rich.

Pablo Strugo (00:04:06):
Yeah, so it's family inheritance. It's family inheritance, which was your advice to the first podcast you ever did. That was your number one piece of advice.

Jack Kuveke (00:04:12):
It was my number one advice. By the way, people would tell her it couldn't be done. They would say, Elizabeth, you just defrauded all of these people. You're famous for being a horrible person. No one's going to want to marry you. Your last boyfriend was a gargoyle. Who just is, like, an abusive Bangladeshi gargoyle man. Remember that? And then somehow she bagged this guy. And I, to be honest, it's the most impressive come-up I've ever seen.

Pablo Strugo (00:04:38):
And it was at her lowest point, like at her lowest point. You gotta wonder. But then this guy marries her and then waits many years, like what people have forgotten now. Now is the time to do exactly what she was doing. It's just the whole absurdity of it is too much, man.

Jack Kuveke (00:04:54):
It doesn't make any sense. And this guy decided, he was like, how mentally unwell are you that you decide that you're going to get into bed with a criminal? She's going to jail. She's in jail for 11 years. And this guy was like, This is the best I can do.

Pablo Strugo (00:05:09):
Well, at the very least, if I'm going to do that, I'm going to pull on her knowledge as an advisor, because this is an area she knows about. So, well, that's how we started out. You know what I mean? That's where we're starting. Let's move on to something that's a bit more, like, meaningful, impactful. That was just funny. But, so OpenAI. OpenAI bought, as probably everybody knows now, bought Johnny Ives' startup for like $6.5 billion. And nobody knows what they're going to build. But there's, like, obviously a bunch of people guessing. And the big, like, the number one thing. I, you know, some kind of input-output thing. So you can interact with AI. There's this picture of a button that came out. And I guess the idea is it just records everything that you do. And it's just kind of always there, always on, like a portable echo. I guess I could think about it. 

Jack Kuveke (00:05:54):
Dude, it's just going to be Her. Remember the movie Her? That's 100% what's happening here. It's just Her. Do you know how many? You've seen all these photos of people on Reddit being like, My only friend is OpenAI. My only friend is ChatGPT. That's what this is. I think they're just going to start. People are going to start just chatting and having a parasocial relationship with.

Pablo Strugo (00:06:17):
I could see it. I mean, dude, I talk. Not really personal stuff, but I talk to ChatGPT a lot, man, all the time. Any single question I have, basically, goes out to ChatGPT. But I don't really understand this device because I don't know. I feel like you have so many mics, like your phone has a mic, your laptop has a mic, like, you know, everything around you already has a mic. I guess it's an always-on mic and always-on speaker. But it seems like, you know, carrying a whole new thing just for that, $65 billion. I don't know.

Jack Kuveke (00:06:44):
Or do you think they're going to compete against iPhone? Because that's the other angles. Maybe they're going to do one of these, like, more niche, weird devices like the Her thing or just, you know, like an echo that can respond to you and help you out like an Apple Watch you talk to or whatever. But I feel like the move, although this seems way too ambitious and like kind of probably a horrible decision. 

Pablo Strugo (00:07:06):
It's probably a great decision.

Jack Kuveke (00:07:07):
Yeah, they go compete with like iPhone and Apple and try and build. 

Pablo Strugo (00:07:11):
Just like a new phone?

Jack Kuveke (00:07:12):
Yeah, what if they go do that? They try and build, like, a full-on device.

Pablo Strugo (00:07:16):
That, actually, I hadn't thought about that before, and it's so stupid. It might be a smart sort of thing, but just to go on that, you could argue that, the biggest. What I've been thinking a lot about is AI's biggest impact is actually at the interface level. Really, that's the biggest thing. Is just the idea that you can. You still need software to carry out business logic to do deterministic functions, but what's nice now is just like the GUI, the user interface, Windows. You get to click on Windows and close Windows. Whatever, and you know, then with mobile you get to tap on like buttons. Now you can just use language. Natural language and the reality is, you know, whatever phone you want to look at today wasn't set up for that, and I'm sure they can make changes to the OS over time. They probably will adapt but you've got something old that's adapting to something new versus what you have started from scratch. And try to replace the phone. It still seems very far-fetched, but it's an interesting idea. 

Jack Kuveke (00:08:07):
I mean, maybe they have the money to, probably, at least, start exploring it. Like if they wanted to start up, like, their own version of Bell Labs and just experiment with stuff like that, they have the money to do it. And they have now. The design guru to just make a bunch of things that are really playful and nice, and fit. And have a really strong emotional attachment, like devices that have a really strong emotional attachment to people. They could do it now, which is like maybe the darkest timeline. It's just every billionaire now that runs a big tech company is just Lex Luthor. They're going to space. They're building crazy devices that are probably going to destroy humanity. They're like best friends with the president of the United States. They're whispering into people's ears as they're on, like, in front of the United Nations.

Pablo Strugo (00:08:58):
But I don't know, man. That Elon-Trump thing might be like he just, he's pissed off about this new bill. Like, I don't even know if that friendship's going to last.

Jack Kuveke (00:09:04):
Maybe not.

Pablo Strugo (00:09:05):
It is true, I will say. One thing that strikes me is you look at the oligarch of really rich, and they were, you think, Rockefeller, Carnegie, J.P. Morgan, whatever, they were confined to their industries. Rockefeller did oil. That was what he did. Carnegie did steel, J.P. Morgan was finance, whatever. Vanderbilt was rails, now, there's just so much power, so much fluidity to go across. That it's like, you know, Zuck does whatever he wants, and basically do whatever they want. Like they're not confined to anything. So they end up in this, like Musk being obviously probably the best example of it. It's like, oh, I want to own space and all cars and all electricity, like, whatever. I'll just take it all.

Jack Kuveke (00:09:47):
And there's a team of 800 genius Indian guys that I can hire immediately to start executing on my plans because I have a trillion dollars at my disposal. Like, I have more money than most. Most of the top 25 nations in the world. Big more fun than their GDP, which is hilarious. And so then they're just like, Let's just go. I guess we're just going to go build rockets and headsets for the military. At what point do we just give control of the United States government to Palmer Luckey?

Pablo Strugo (00:10:20):
Well, I'll tell you, I know Bernie Sanders has a very elegant solution to this. He just said people just should not have more than a billion dollars. That's it. You don't need over a billion. So, like, as soon as you hit a billion, you're done. You're out of the game.

Jack Kuveke (00:10:33):
I did have a. I feel like a billion dollars is probably enough. Although you can do a lot, of really. If you have Elon Musk-level money. I always thought it would be fun. You know, I don't think these people sometimes do cool enough things. Like, buy a ton of land and then just erect gigantic marble statues of myself in the middle of the forest. Just a 300-foot-tall statue of myself in Wyoming on, like, three. And then just leave it there.

Pablo Strugo (00:10:58):
But see, this is why people like you and I. We don't have a billion dollars.

Jack Kuveke (00:11:02):
That's probably a good point.

Pablo Strugo (00:11:02):
We don't deserve it.

Jack Kuveke (00:11:03):
That's probably a good point. You can rebuild. This is dark. You could rebuild any structure you wanted with Elon Musk-level money. And he's not doing that.

Pablo Strugo (00:11:12):
He's wasting his time, basically.

Jack Kuveke (00:11:14):
He's wasting his time.

Pablo Strugo (00:11:14):
Such a big opportunity. You know who else doesn't like, let's just, weird segue. But who doesn't have it all. An opportunity in my opinion anymore, but just raised a billion dollars. Grammarly. Grammarly just raised a billion in. Everything about it was weird, like non-dilutive funding. It's basically a loan from General Catalyst. Apparently they've been doing this before, so maybe it's not anything new. You know, the article did talk about, they don't have to mark their investment down. Like, Grammarly doesn't have to take a new valuation now, which was the line that struck out to me. Because I'm thinking, what do you need Grammarly for these? I mean, I like the product, nothing against them, but like, what do you need? What do you use Grammarly for these days with all the AI that's available?

Jack Kuveke (00:11:53):
I didn't realize anyone was still writing anything. I haven't written anything in months. I don't plan on it. I'm hoping that if all goes well, within three years. I forget how to read. And I just, John Ive or whoever and Sam Altman come up with that device I just yell at, and it just, AI slops into all my social accounts for me.

Pablo Strugo (00:12:15):
Do you write your LinkedIn posts?

Jack Kuveke (00:12:17):
I do. Ironically, I don't use AI for any content stuff.

Pablo Strugo (00:12:20):
It's still not. It's funny, like that's still one of the big tests of it for me, like it's still not there. And like, the content's not that good. I'm not that good of a writer, but it's like it's really bad. 

Jack Kuveke (00:12:32):
It's really bad at making good content. Yeah, it's good at structuring stuff. It's pretty good for coming up with premises. If I was to use AI for anything, I might use it for premises for content. But this whole Grammarly thing, man. Dude, did you see there's a bit of some, like, all this data is coming out on, like, 40 percent of companies have zero to six months of runway. The amount of companies' IPOs that have all the IPOs this year, for big tech companies have been down rounds at IPO. 

Pablo Strugo (00:12:58):
Oh shit. 

Jack Kuveke (00:12:59):
And it is kind of looking not that great for the tech industry. Like the sense I'm getting right now is what it feels like is that the hyped-up bubble of 2022. When venture capital grew like 25% in a year and all those new fund managers, like emerging fund managers, raised their first fund and started deploying capital. All this money flooded into tech, and it isn't working out. That isn't, I think that that's just the sense. It didn't go well. Not for Mistral though, I'm sure.

Pablo Strugo (00:13:30):
Yeah, come on, you can't. Don't worry, don't worry. I'm not taking it personally. No, but I don't know, man. It's really weird, right? Because on the one hand, there is all this stuff about, you know, not a good time. And then, you know, the market's at all-time highs, like Duolingo, for example, which every day is on the top of my list of how big of an idiot I am for not buying it. It's just absolutely destroying everything. And so I don't know what to make of that. You know what I mean? I can't really explain it. It's like a tale of two worlds.

Jack Kuveke (00:13:55):
Maybe it's like the winners are winning and the losers are losing. The winners were priced in. But then there's the Palantir thing. I was looking at Palantir's valuation-to-revenue multiple, and it's like 180. I was thinking about it. This is the math I did. They make less money in 90 days than Amazon makes in the first six hours of every day. I'm not kidding.

Pablo Strugo (00:14:24):
Right.

Jack Kuveke (00:14:25):
They made, like, a one-point. Whatever billion this last quarter. Amazon makes that in, like, six hours every day. And they're worth like one-third of what Amazon is worth.

Pablo Strugo (00:14:37):
Oh my God.

Jack Kuveke (00:14:38):
Or like, I forget the exact. They're like a $300 billion market cap right now. And so I was like, sitting there. And I'm looking at this math. I was like, so Amazon is worth like less than 10x Palantir right now and makes 150 times as much money? I've met people like, Palantir's a buy. I'm like, where does it go from here? If they do $20 billion a year, are they worth $3 trillion? I was like, Dude, that's more. Are they worth the same as Microsoft and Apple? What am I missing?

Pablo Strugo (00:15:16):
But it's the same with Tesla, man. Tesla, so many times, this is so overvalued. I would have shorted. Which I'll never short something, because it just takes too much guts that I clearly don't have. But I could have been blown out many times on it, because it was, and it probably still is, worth more than all other car companies combined and all this stuff. I don't know, man. I don't know how to make sense of this.

Jack Kuveke (00:15:36):
Because then the people are like, it's a technology company. And I go, or like it's a, whatever, it's a software company. Then I go. Well, kind of, but also, is it really a software company, first and foremost? I have this, I don't know. There's a lot of things going on. Like, yeah, it's worth a trillion dollars. Its PE ratio is 189.

Pablo Strugo (00:16:00):
Okay.

Jack Kuveke (00:16:03):
Seems maybe a little off. So I just listen. What do I know at the end of the day? But if there is all of this, and that isn't to say that tech hasn't made. Provided printed money and created so much value and disproportionately changed the economy because it has. But it does feel like we're in this time. Like if you remember. If you're ever present or you've been a part of every crypto boom. When crypto is at its peak, like when it was at 20k in 2018, people are like, It's going to a hundred. And I'm like, it just went up 30x. Like, I feel like. You can't. How much farther can it go? But everyone around you is like, It's not stopping. And then two weeks later, they're all homeless. And that kind of feels like what's going on in tech right now. Where everyone's like, because there's been so much success, they just assume that everything is going to be successful. And they just ignore fundamentals.

Pablo Strugo (00:17:04):
I think that's probably true. But I mean, Bitcoin is a weird one, man. Bitcoin, like now it's at 110 or whatever. It's, like, I've just never bought Bitcoin because I don't own gold either. You know what I mean? For the same fundamental reason. But it's gone through enough recessions that I'm like, ah, maybe this thing is kind of like for real. I was, like, in the Charlie Munger camp, you know, and I'm like, oh, maybe you just didn't get it.

Jack Kuveke (00:17:26):
I know that's, my Bitcoin has been my saving grace. That was the only good financial decision. It's how I made all of my money, is just on buying Bitcoin eight years ago.

Pablo Strugo (00:17:35):
OK, so let's move on. Let's move over to this company. Beautiful company once worth over a billion dollars. Microsoft's Back Builder AI is running out of money. They borrowed a playbook from you, didn't they? They are doing what you kind of wanted to do or what you're doing.

Jack Kuveke (00:17:42):
Yes, I was. First of all, I'm an investor. And I'm a happy investor in them.

Pablo Strugo (00:17:53):
Still?

Jack Kuveke (00:17:53):
They lied about revenue, which I don't like, but what I do like about them. And this was my idea. They had an AI company, quote unquote. Eric will be using big finger quotes here for everyone who can't see me right now, but they were supposedly using AI to build people's apps for them. But in reality, they just had, like, 700 Indian guys in a basement somewhere. Building products for people, and they raise almost $500 million from Microsoft from Qatar. Wellfound. 

Pablo Strugo (00:18:25):
See, this is the thing. The bigger the brand name, it seems like, the less diligence that gets done. This is back to your like, Theranos, Kissinger, and. 

Jack Kuveke (00:18:34):
Like, remember when J.P. Morgan bought that company that those just, like, 7 million fake emails? And I'm like, you couldn't send. 

Pablo Strugo (00:18:41):
A couple.

Jack Kuveke (00:18:42):
10 emails out? You didn't even need to send like 1,000. You could have just 100. You would have been like, Oh, this is a fake email list. But yeah, so this company just lied about how much money they were making. Lied about how their AI model was good and building products for people. It wasn't. And then I don't know what they're thinking, though. Because when you lie about revenue, eventually that comes out very quickly. That comes out to your investors, to everyone, and to your team. Realizing you're almost out of money. Because of your burn rate, the whole team's planning your burn rate around the fact that you say you're making X amount, but you're not. So then you're like, what do you think is going to happen? Like, I just don't understand these people. Where, they lie so much. Like it was like 30% of what they were saying they were making. And I'm like, that's such a lie. It's so easy to get caught. I don't even. I almost have less of a problem with using all the Indian guys to build shit because if the product's good, I guess you're just like a glorified software engineering friend.

Pablo Strugo (00:19:46):
I'll tell you this. I didn't realize. Before doing these new things. How much stuff actually happened, like in the starter plan, in just, like, a month's time. Cause the other one, the other kind of. This is like as big of a fraud as I think you could get. You talked about this one, so I'm curious to hear the whole story. But Crypto founder, found alive after faking death to pump a meme coin, which is, like, it's an insane event.

Jack Kuveke (00:20:08):
The idea that you think you're gonna get away with this, I don't understand. Cause also, he didn't leave his parents' house, which I thought was maybe the. He faked his own suicide and then was like, I'm gonna hide out in my dad's guest bedroom.

Pablo Strugo (00:20:27):
What was the play? What was the idea?

Jack Kuveke (00:20:29):
I think it was like he built a meme coin. And in the meme coin, for whatever, I don't even really know. I couldn't ever get to the bottom of why this was a good idea. My original assumption, based on what I read, was, oh, he did this because he was in crippling debt and committed wire fraud or owed the IRS $8 million. Was my assumption, but then everything people were saying, Oh, he's trying to use his suicide to pump the crypto. Which I was like, That's a fun marketing tactic.

Pablo Strugo (00:21:08):
Oh my God.

Jack Kuveke (00:21:09):
Also, what do you tell your dad? Your dad's like, Hey, I see that there's an obituary in the local paper for you.

Pablo Strugo (00:21:18):
Like over dinner? Dude, what is this?

Jack Kuveke (00:21:21):
Like, Dad, you don't understand me. You don't believe in me. Like, just imagine an angsty teenager yelling at his dad. Cause he doesn't see his vision.

Pablo Strugo (00:21:30):
Have you seen the website, by the way, pump.fun? You know that website?

Jack Kuveke (00:21:33):
Pump.fun, yeah. Yeah, I remember when I came out.

Pablo Strugo (00:21:36):
It's, yeah, I heard about it a few months ago, and it's freaking insane, dude.

Jack Kuveke (00:21:42):
Oh my God, should we? I just thought about it, I've thought many times about creating a meme coin. I don't have it in me, though, because I feel bad about it.

Pablo Strugo (00:21:51):
I think you should do it. You should start. I mean, you should put your fund that you talked about, you know, Jabroni Capital. That only invests in huge scams or whatever it was. You can tell me more about it and make it a meme coin. Is that not a smart idea?

Jack Kuveke (00:22:02):
I guess I just feel like if I. All meme coins are scams, and I had PTSD from being involved in a crypto where it ended up being kind of fraudulent. I whistle blew when I was 20 on a crypto currency I worked for. And the idea of doing another one. The only way I could, like, consciously do this was if I just told everyone, This is, it's called, this is a scam.

Pablo Strugo (00:22:25):
Yes. No, that's how I think you should do it. Like the whole thing should be satire, and it should be very in your face. And sometimes those things still work.

Jack Kuveke (00:22:33):
I'm going to sell at the top coin.

Pablo Strugo (00:22:37):
Yes, exactly.

Jack Kuveke (00:22:38):
The second this hits a $30 million market cap. I'm selling my entire position, dot com. It's not a bad idea.

Pablo Strugo (00:22:44):
Could be a hit. Could be a hit, the more I think about it.

Jack Kuveke (00:22:45):
I'm going to be honest. I might invest in that.

Pablo Strugo (00:22:48):
See, you can't tell people where the top is. Just you'll sell at the top, and then everybody's just trying to find that top. which is the same thing as anything else at that point, really.

Jack Kuveke (00:22:56):
And then the forum is just like, it can go higher. This isn't the top. The top, isn't it? It's like, it's worth $80 million. There's like, we're not even close to it.

Pablo Strugo (00:23:06):
Yeah, sounds easy. It's probably not that easy, but it sounds easy.

Jack Kuveke (00:23:10):
Yeah, I mean, I know a number of people who scam people out with their own crypto coin. I mean, it's very doable. We could do it.

Pablo Strugo (00:23:15):
But if you donate all the money to charity, does that make it good?

Jack Kuveke (00:23:19):
Great point. I wouldn't do that because I'm not a good person, but I like the idea. The energy behind that. What if I donate 1% of the money to charity?

Pablo Strugo (00:23:28):
You've got to find that threshold where you become a good person.

Jack Kuveke (00:23:32):
What if I teach you the giving pledge, like after I've bought eight boats and an island?

Pablo Strugo (00:23:38):
Once my finances and all my children's finances are secured.

Jack Kuveke (00:23:42):
Once my children's finances are secured, I just give it all away. Once I leave the $180 million home to my children in the Hamptons. And I'm like, Oh, they'll be fine forever. It's at that point I decided to give all my money away. After I, like, destroy half of the economies in Africa and fund a bunch of Bangladeshi sweatshops. It's at that point I'm giving away all my money.

Pablo Strugo (00:24:07):
Well, you have to because the reality is your kid's future is not looking so bright. You know, we just saw this headline a couple, what is it, a couple of days ago. AI may already be shrinking entry-level jobs in tech. Apparently entry-level jobs from big tech, like big tech's hiring, like, 25% less this year than last.

Jack Kuveke (00:24:28):
Dude, there will be no jobs left.

Pablo Strugo (00:24:31):
Except for venture capital, right?

Jack Kuveke (00:24:33):
Except for venture capital. And by the way, if you need an intern, I'm getting desperate at this point. You let me know. I'm planning on interning. I did apply for an internship at Sequoia like a year ago, and my application was so unhinged. 

Pablo Strugo (00:24:49):
Do you get a reply?

Jack Kuveke (00:24:51):
Oh, I did. I emailed one of the partners. They got back to me like, Hey, this is a really interesting profile. We'd love to talk with you. I ended the message by being like, I'm willing to do whatever physical challenges that, this requires. I can do 25 push-ups, and I have a green belt in karate. I will fight the other interns applying for this role. In hand-to-hand combat.

Pablo Strugo (00:25:12):
And they replied to that? 

Jack Kuveke (00:25:14):
They replied to that.

Pablo Strugo (00:25:14):
This is interesting. No way.

Jack Kuveke (00:25:16):
I do think it would be very funny to LARP as, like, a venture capital intern for a month or two. But that. Do any work, be the worst intern, and just film the entire thing. Either way, back to your point, the amount of companies that are laying people off like the amount of people I know that are trying to get a job right now, and I don't know if you have friends that have been unemployed for, like. 

Pablo Strugo (00:25:39):
I don't have any friends.

Jack Kuveke (00:25:40):
Six months, a year. Okay, that checks out. But dude, it's rough out there. I saw a headline we were saying earlier before we started this. That there's less entry level jobs or a higher unemployment rate for software engineer grads than art majors at school. Which, maybe they're just the art majors who are going to work at Starbucks, which.

Pablo Strugo (00:26:02):
Yeah, that doesn't count.

Jack Kuveke (00:26:04):
That doesn't count. But like, if that's true, I need to look into the bracks in this claim. It's looking real bad forever.

Pablo Strugo (00:26:12):
You know what? Tangent because you know what? Podcasts have become like the thing these days. It's like you can't trust the media. You can't, but you can trust podcasts. And sometimes I'm like, man, a podcast is like, frankly, and I'm saying this on our podcast, but like we can say, I mean, and I really try to, you know, guardrail and say the right things. But you can really say anything you want on a podcast. So I just, as a tangent, because as, you're making claims that you're not that confident about it. Making whole explanations about it. It just came to mind that, you know, every podcaster can do this. And I just. I'm so surprised, and I don't understand why people will be willing to be like, Oh, I heard this on a podcast. And then it's just like it's fact. Oh, I can't find it on the Internet anywhere. But like, you know, X, Y, Z said it on their podcast. It's got to be true.

Jack Kuveke (00:26:58):
I love the idea of spreading. I love the idea of spreading fake news. Oh, my God. I'm dude. One day ago, U.S. computer engineering grads reported a seven and a half percent unemployment rate, the third highest among all majors. More than twice art history's three percent, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

Pablo Strugo (00:27:23):
Wow.

Jack Kuveke (00:27:24):
It's not looking good, man.

Pablo Strugo (00:27:25):
You know what's hilarious is literally maybe five years ago, you would have asked me, Hey, what is the best place to go as like a young person? I would have been like, Dude, software, forget it. I'm so pissed I didn't go to software. Like, those are the guys I know make the most money.

Jack Kuveke (00:27:38):
Would have been the worst advice possible. You know who has the best unemployment rate, meaning like the lowest? Nutritional science majors, 0.4%, which, by the way. I'm assuming that just means they're telling everybody to, like, eat liver, and that's what they mean by nutritional science.

Pablo Strugo (00:27:56):
All right, well, look, let's end it there. You know, we like to end it with, kind of, you know, maybe a little more, a little some, and a little learning. And I think that it is, you know, all jobs will be gone. So if you're not a founder, I mean, maybe you could be a founder. That seems legit. And if not, just be a VC, you know what I mean? It's just do it, because when everything else.

Jack Kuveke (00:28:16):
For sure. Worst-case scenario, just be an investor. You don't need a job. Just give people money.

Pablo Strugo (00:28:24):
85% of people who listen to the show just started listening to it this year. You're probably one of those people. In fact, the odds are 85%. Guess what? You need to go back because there are over 100 other episodes that you need to check out that are just as good, if not better, than this one. Don't miss out.